03-13-2008 02:11

Forum: TEMPLE

Well I didn't mean to hijack the thread and make it a personal one. I hope everyone feels as if they can go ahead and post their plans for Easter services.

I got a call from a hospital in Kauai right after New Year's. Seems my dad had gotten a pacemaker. It went well except he was too confused to be released on his own. "Mentally incompetent" was how they put it.

So I got on a plane and went out there to see what I could do.

I haven't seen my dad in 27 years. We haven't spoken for 13. There was no falling out, per se, we just didn't really know one another.

I spent two weeks out there, got him moved into assisted living, and the two of us agreed that he should move to Colorado (where I live). So I came home to make preparations. He passed away quietly in the night about 3 days after I left.

I'm not entirely sure what that was all about but... we had a great 2 weeks.

I'm taking my entire family plus my inlaws out, and we'll be there 6 days. Most of the arrangements are already set so I'm really not stressing much at all about it.

Thanks for all your messages to me, and your prayers.

Kitty

RE: Easter 03-13-2008 08:28

Forum: TEMPLE

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Lewis Anyone doing anything special for Easter Sunday this year?

I will be flying to Kauai to get my father's ashes and scatter them at sea.

Long story.

03-13-2008 08:22

Forum: MIND

Actually, I have a different perspective. (gee what a surprise)

I noticed the sudden downturn immediately following the restructuring of the forum after the last crash. It's because the forum now has an identity crisis.

The old forum was more conducive to fun & banter alongside the other more serious threads, which makes it a little easier to connect with another person and get to know them. Then the deeper conversations/relationships can follow.

Think of it in terms of any friendship which develops into one which eventually includes transparency and accountability. You don't start out that way -- you start out with activities together, something fun that you both enjoy. Through spending that time together, you learn how to relate. Even when the friendship gets deep and you're comfortable sharing hidden failures and helping one another seek Christ, you STILL have to lighten up and have some fun once in a while. Laughter is the oil in the engine.

The restructuring of the forum eliminated much of the light-hearted joking and surface-y personal sharing through which people connect and relate, and which provides a little relief from the seriousness. We were directed to write posts which might motivate, inspire or even convict instead. At least that's the impression I got. Everything turned rather serious.

I think the intent was a good one, as in, let's not waste time; our walk with Christ is too important and we all have responsibilities because of our position of worship leading! And it all IS much too important to waste time. But we are still relational creatures who crave community.

How do you think your marriage would turn out if you decided not to "waste time" talking with your wife about her day, or taking her out without the kids now and then, or even laughing so hysterically together that Dr. Pepper comes out your nose once in a while?

The forum now has more of a think-tank flavor than the community which drew me here in the first place. If you want serious discussions and motivational threads that spur one another onward, that's great, but it still won't flourish outside of relationship.

Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Kitty

01-28-2008 08:20

Forum: MIND

Hi Tim,

I would suggest splitting your second point into two, and expounding a tiny bit more on each. I think the point about not being able to turn worship on and off gets lost, and it's a good point to think about. I'm not sure what I think about it yet! but it's an intriguing thought and should be brought out a little more.

Kitty

12-19-2007 06:27

Forum: MIND

Wow, great shot.

(love the waders too)

Is it your custom for the people to gather around like that? I've never seen that. I think it's a sweet touch.

12-18-2007 09:23

Forum: MIND

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Jacob 1) If it wasn't, then why did Paul write personal letters to individual pastors giving them advice on leading their local church? (1 & 2 Timothy, Titus). I mean that's a significant portion of scripture right there. 2) If it wasn't, then why did Jesus himself charge Peter three times - "Do you love me? Then feed my sheep." I believe this is a charge for leaders (pastors and elders) to be shepherds.

1) That isn't what was going on there. Paul traveled about establishing churches, and he would often leave someone behind to carry on the work for a while who would later rejoin him somewhere else. Timothy was one such.
2) Wow, you're reading a lot into that, aren't you? Jesus' charge to Peter to "feed my sheep" had nothing to do with 'pastoring a church.'

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Jacob This post is about helping Matthew. Matthew needs to search his heart and make difficult decisions here.

I am helping Matthew. I'm letting him know that the phrase "whether you like it or not, the pastor is the shepherd of that church" is a fallacy which has imprisoned untold numbers of Christians in abusive church situations. Don't be one of them.

I still love you, too.

Kitty

12-18-2007 08:46

Forum: MIND

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Blakley Anyway, back to the church programming issue.

Church programming IS the issue. Churches have become all about programs to meet needs, rather than relationships to grow people. This is the fundamental flaw in church organizations for the mature Christians you've mentioned.

Kitty

12-18-2007 08:36

Forum: MIND

P.S.

I used to read comments from other people like those I've posted above, thinking those people must just be hurt, or disillusioned, or rebellious, or they're mad because they can't get their way, or they don't really 'get' church... or they're just plain lunatics.

And now I am the one writing the comments, and it's not because of any of those reasons.

12-18-2007 08:32

Forum: MIND

1. In the last year, what has been a big blessing that God has given to you, your family, or your church?

For me it's really hard to separate things out like that, since everything is connected to everything. I've refrained from answering this post, in fact, because of the difficulty this first question poses for someone like me.

I guess I could just pick something though. One would be seeing my children engage more in discussions with me and with our gathering of friends on topics of life and of spiritual nature. I believe this is a direct result of us walking away from institutional church.

I realize most of you earn your livings in an institutional church, and I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just telling you where I am.


2. What direction has the worship of your church or ministry assembly taken in the last year?

The worship in our gathering of friends has been freed and has spread out to thread through all facets of life. (We're still trying to wrap our minds around that though.)


3. What are your learning about worship personally?

It is not limited to what I thought it was or thought it accomplished during all those years I was 'leading worship.' And in fact, what I thought was worship back then probably wasn't in several cases.

And yet... the Holy Spirit still reaches, touches and changes us during what we call worship, in spite of any of that.


4. What are you learning about your voice or instrument?

It does not define me. It's not even mine.


5. What is one of your biggest hopes for 2008 for your ministry?

Actually, I don't have a ministry: no one does except Christ. My biggest hope is that more and more people learn who they really are in Jesus Christ, and how to live out of that reality, allowing HIM to accomplish his mission on the earth through them.

These answers are short because it's a survey format, and they don't really convey very much of my thoughts on this.

Kitty

12-18-2007 08:16

Forum: MIND

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Jacob Whether you like it or not, the pastor is the shepherd for that church.

Actually, that is the place of Jesus Christ and there is no teaching in the New Testament to the contrary.

This is just one more example of why the fellowship of the saints was never meant to be "led" by one person.

Renouncing my membership in the Kingdom of Pastor,
Kitty

12-18-2007 08:09

Forum: MIND

Very nice, Gary, in many ways.

12-15-2007 02:30

Forum: MIND

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Blakley One critical problem that churches face is the mature christian.

Yeah, those mature Christians are always causing trouble!!

Kitty

What is true worship? 11-07-2007 07:07

Forum: MIND

I think there's something seriously off-balance just in the asking of the question.

(Weren't you guys already formulating your answers before you opened this post?)

Yet, that question (and the supposed answer to it) can be found everywhere these days... we've been saturated for the past several years with web sites, books, discussion forums, worship music subscriptions with all kinds of articles from the "experts" on how to worship, why to worship, when to worship, worship is more than music--it's a lifestyle, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.

You know what? I was talking to a friend yesterday. Since my husband works for a large media company, he has interns working for him, and an intern wanted to do a story on "true worship." He asked me about being interviewed and I politely declined. But he asked my friend (also a fellow recovering worship leader) and she doesn't feel as comfortable as I do in saying "NO" so she got roped into the interview.

ANYWAY, we were talking yesterday and she pointed out to me that in reading through the gospels again, it occurred to her that Jesus never once asked anyone to worship him. What he DID was try to reveal himself, his father, and the Kingdom of God to people.

My conclusion from this observation: Get to know Jesus better and worship (and everything else) will follow.

I've said this before... we don't need to teach people how to worship; we need to teach people how to get to know Jesus. IT'S A RELATIONSHIP.

Everything else will follow that. Anything you can think of that we're supposed to be "doing" as Christians WILL follow that (unless Christ leads you to do nothing).

Kitty

09-15-2007 05:26

Forum: TEMPLE

For my opinion, I would say... the last time I was called up to do something like this, I tried really hard to stay on the side of conservatism. I didn't see it as my job to stretch or educate anyone, just to play the songs so we could all worship in song together.

But for my advice, I would say... you could always meditate on it with the Lord and see what you think He tells you, or if any great ideas drop into your heart about it.

And as a side note, even though I have ideas and beliefs (which I get from Scripture) which are probably radical enough to make most of you raise your eyebrows, I feel just a tad offended on behalf of my more conservative brethren upon hearing their preferences or styles of worship referred to as the"lowest" of anything.

But perhaps I have grossly misunderstood the comment. If so, I apologize for even bringing it up.

Kitty

08-23-2007 07:08

Forum: MIND

Well, as I read the Stott article posted by Greg, it didn't seem to me that "go" was the point anyway.

The point is: bringing Jesus Christ to people and discipling them (mentoring, encouraging, teaching, training, loving, living with them) is a relationship thing -- that is, if you're going to use Jesus Christ as your model of making disciples. There are scores of human-conceived plans for doing the same thing.

And I have to agreed with DJ (miracle which that is). I don't see a clergy/laity separation anywhere in the teachings of the New Testament either. I do, in fact, see quite the opposite in many places.

Kitty

06-13-2007 07:44

Forum: MIND

Sorry to be a downer, but this word brings to my mind the fact that most Christians today don't understand what it really means in the Bible, and how this misunderstanding/misinterpretation has been used for hundreds of years to control people rather than freeing them to be led together by the Holy Spirit.

Kitty

06-11-2007 03:51

Forum: TEMPLE

Park a pickup truck on the stage and have the pastor give his sermon leaning against it.

ok seriously.... why don't you invite the women to testify why men/fathers are so great and why we appreciate them so much?

04-21-2007 03:51

Forum: MIND

quote:

Originally posted by david johnson 'baloney' is the insightful term i feel. he needs to learn that timely communication is of the essence.

I agree, David. (never thought I'd be typing THAT)

I don't see anywhere in the New Testament EVER where one person is set up to be "the one" who hears from God, makes decisions, and then everyone else just does what they say.

That is how you run a business. That is NOT how the Bible instructs us to be the family of God.

I'm pretty sure the Bible says that Christ is the head (meaning "source," not "boss" but you can take it as boss if you want to) of the church, and all the rest of us are important members of the body who must learn how to hear from the Holy Spirit and be led by Christ together (which is nothing short of miraculous). Calling it the 'spiritual shepherd' or 'office of Pastor' sounds nice, but that's not in the Bible. And it's just a euphemism for "head."

Kitty

04-21-2007 03:35

Forum: MIND

I mowed my neighbor's grass.

RE: I Don't Like Easter 04-08-2007 04:07

Forum: MIND

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Bruce Let's just say it's always going to be on the first Sunday of April. Can we do that?

Yeah, no kidding.

As I heard this morning, Easter is not about Spring -- Spring is about Easter.

Kitty